Dustin Heise 0:00

Right on. Oh my gosh, Ben, it's so good to get time together today. Someone that I admire so much as a young leader and obviously an athlete. Ben Lasage, I'm so stoked that we get this time together today and we're gonna have an amazing conversation, just knowing, you know, where your values are at and how you're continuing to grow in life as both a professional athlete and as a young businessman. We're gonna learn a lot from you. Today's guest is Ben Lasage, Canadian national rugby team player, three-time Major League Rugby champion with the New England Free Jacks, and a startup operator who has helped scale high growth companies from the earliest stages, from representing Canada on the world stage at the Rugby World Cup to leading major projects during rapid growth of Omnipresent. Ben has built a career that blends elite sport, business, and community leadership. Boy, oh boy, we're gonna have a time today, but also a dude after my heart who's loves sport, business, community, impact. Ben, welcome, man. Thanks for coming.

Ben LeSage 0:53

Thanks for having me, Dustin. Yeah, no, it's uh great to connect. Seems like we have a lot in common and uh just a couple people, I guess, who are passionate about uh sport in Canada and and business and uh a lot of other things.

Dustin Heise 1:04

Yeah, man. Well, you know, we're in that really cool point in time where, you know, so many business leaders or, you know, people that have, you know, come from high net worth or built high net worth and are coming into sport, they see the the economic impact that it has, they see the full potential it has, they see the the opportunity that sport has right now as an asset class, but also, you know, just the you know, for those that that want to have an impact on people's lives through sport, we're in a very good phase of where sport's at in this world. When I think of uh someone that's having an impact in you, Ben, you walked away from engineering to chase a rugby world cup team. You know, looking back, what made that leap, you know, so worth the risk?

Ben LeSage 1:44

Yeah, you know, I I don't think I ever looked at it as a risk. I looked at it as uh a privilege, you know. I I uh took my studies seriously and wanted to make sure that I got my degree done and uh put away and stored safely somewhere, but I knew that that like life is a stage-specific endeavor, you know, and there's different stages for different pursuits and and I could only pursue athletics or I mean I could try to do it later, but it might not be so easy, you know. So um I I felt like that was the best time if ever, and l the timing lining up with a World Cup Cup, it seemed like a no-brainer to at least take a take a punt on rugby for a year or two and see if I could make that World Cup team and and make that sort of a a full-time thing, and then the ball just kept rolling from there and was fortunate to to sort of keep getting opportunities and and sort of you blink and seven or eight years later, getting ready hopefully for another World Cup next year and having pursued rugby uh pretty seriously over that time wouldn't wouldn't regret the decision in the slightest.

Dustin Heise 2:43

No, heck no. Well, I love how you were able to just share, like it wasn't a risk. You know, a lot of people would be like, I don't know, like, but you always could see, you can tell that you have clarity on where you know the destination is and the journey to get there. You know, as you were going through that process and and as you were, you know, ultimately you made the world rugby team, it's like, how did you find the pathway to get there? And and you know, once you've made that team and and you know the world's gonna open up to you. Your brand now changes as a you know world rugby player and and things of that nature. As you reflect, what lessons did you learn as you made that team? What were some of those pieces that you know you you found it difficult to overcome, but you ultimately did and and and you got there?

Ben LeSage 3:21

Yeah. I mean, I think like like the Canadian team at the time was full of a ton of veterans who had played a ton of games for the team for a while and had been around the program for a while. So I think there wasn't any point, I think until I my name, I saw it on the list and sort of had a flight book to Japan. Did I sort of exhale and realize that I had made it? So I think I think you talk you look at athletes and they probably fall into one or two buckets. There's those that just play and carry themselves with incredible confidence, and that's why they're able to perform how they do and and sort of crack open doors and you need that sort of swagger. And then there's others, even this week Lane Johnson retired and he talks about all these like anxieties and doubts that he's had as as an FL player, and you sort of always are sort of maybe like knocking yourself down a rung, and that's sort of what's forcing you to work a little bit harder and and not take anything for granted. And I would probably put that myself in that second bucket. So I definitely didn't have any expectations, but I was like, hey, I'm gonna throw throw everything I can and see if I can make that team, and I did, and I think just that sort of unlocked sort of maybe some of that second bucket, that confidence that I could compete with uh these players that I grew up watching for so long, and that I was capable of playing on a world stage and and against some other teams who are some of the best in the world. And uh that probably just gave me the confidence to rather than pursue rugby short term for one specific tournament or whatever, to say, hey, let's see how far we can take this and keep the dream alive for as long as I can.

Dustin Heise 4:52

I think that you know, where you're gonna be able to lock into this next question nicely, where you've been able to use that as you know, an ability to keep taking yourself up to the next level. And you know, you worked in a hyper-growth startup, and I would imagine that in that phase of mass scaling, how you needed to lock in and then rely on what you learned in making each stage of the rugby career real up to that point. You know, how did that serve getting into the the business of a hyper-growth startup?

Ben LeSage 5:22

You're totally right. Like I think there's a lot of similarities, and and I guess in in like the workplace, a similar term would be imposter syndrome, right? Like maybe from the same degree as an athlete, you're feeling that in the workplace where, hey, I'm I'm working for a company or I'm being dealt off-floated responsibilities that maybe I I wouldn't have thought I was ready for or maybe not fully comfortable with, but you just sort of it's sink or swim mindset, right? Like you just dive right in, and the more that you sort of achieve success and get good feedback from people that you look up to, the more that that confidence gets trained. And so I got really lucky with uh the startup that I started working for. It was COVID. There was no rugby going on through a rugby connection. I I was looking for for something to do to keep busy for for sort of six months until I expected rugby to come back and got introduced to a UK startup who was in its infancy. I was one of the first 10 employees, and it went on to sort of scale up and then have have its own story after that. Uh, but to just to have a seat on that roller coaster was an incredible learning opportunity. And like you said, a lot of like similar mindsets that uh translated across the two.

Dustin Heise 6:28

As you continue to grow, and you know, I just think of like Operation Sockdrop has become much bigger than rugby itself as an example. You know, when did you realize sport could create impact that was you know far beyond the scoreboard?

Ben LeSage 6:40

Aaron Powell Yeah, you know, I think it's I mean, I've lived it on a fan as the other side, you know, I grew up so passionate about the Calgary Flames and like growing up in Calgary, the 04 cup run still is like deep in my heart, you know, and and like when you're when you're so passionate about a sport, like you wear that on your sleeve and and your mood through the week sort of ebbs and flows with the team's performance and all those sorts of things. So I know how how sport can influence people who are just fans, you know, and then sort of getting to be on the other side of that and and play for your country and represent millions of people, I guess maybe understanding the the responsibility that you have to to sort of represent those people and and who have given so much to support you. And and like some there's a guy, Andrew Quatron on our team, he always says, you know, and I think it translates across all sports, but there's people paying hard their hard-earned money to come come watch you play the sport. And so not only can you sort of do your best on the field to give them a performance you're proud of, I think getting out into the community and making an impact and and sort of a possibly positively contributing to the communities that support you, especially in these the smaller sort of sports and and leagues, and is so important to getting them to sort of cement their fandom and and be believers in the team. So the sock drop that we do in New England is a small part of that. And and we've got a community in Quincy that really buys into the team. And so just being able to do a small favor for those those folks that show up for us, rain or shine or snow every weekend is uh a small uh favor that we can we can do in return.

Dustin Heise 8:13

You know, and obviously from a values perspective, that's incredible. But rugby demands complete trust in the people that are around you and you know, the people that are beside you. What is one defining moment where a teammate changed the trajectory of your career and how you feel like you can take that and offer it to someone else?

Ben LeSage 8:31

Yeah, I think of I mean, a couple like in the rugby domain as a young rugby player. I was someone who, again, sort of graduated from UBC, signed a contract in Toronto for a major league rugby team, hadn't had ambitions forever to go play overseas, but started to realize that that could be a possibility. And like older players on the team introducing me to agents and like bringing me under their wing and sort of like walking me through the steps in terms of okay, here's all the ducks that you need to get into row in a row to be transition from sort of this amateur player who's at university who's playing for their national team to someone who's who wants to pursue this full time. So I think I think there's a lot of guys who who had a lot of time for me and and I try and translate that and pass that on to some of those young guys coming up now. But even that story amount and my introduction to Omnipresent was was from a a national team uh teammate and and roommate at the time, you know, who who wouldn't make that introduction for everyone, but when he has faith and trust in someone willing to sort of use his network to assist other people, and and that was a huge unlock to to lengthening my rugby career and finding some sort of flexibility on the side that could could allow me to pursue rugby. So I think both on the field and off the field, I've benefited a lot from from teammates sticking their neck out for me and and trusting me with their reputation. And so I think, like you said, you try and pass that on and and do the same for others.

Dustin Heise 9:58

I would imagine that you've seen the professionalization of rugby come a long ways from its you know semi-infancy to you know where it's getting to today in that trajectory. You know, how much have you learned and how much have you seen it grow? And, you know, what do you see as some of those next steps? And, you know, do you ever see yourself wanting to get into the business side of the sport on that side? Or how would you see some of the next stages of your of your rugby career? And where how much room to grow on the professional side does the sport still have to go?

Ben LeSage 10:29

Yeah, you know, you're right. I've been very fortunate timing-wise to sort of be at the infancy of professional rugby in North America. So I've gotten to see it grow and then also have so some of those growing pains at the same time over the the past 10 years. This will be the tenth year of Major League Rugby coming up.

Dustin Heise 10:46

Yeah.

Ben LeSage 10:46

Um I think Canadians 10 plus years ago, and again, when I was first starting at un out at university, you were either had your nine to five and would train before and afterwards, and tried to get called up to the national team and were like true amateur in the sense, or you had to sort of move to Australia or New Zealand or somewhere in Europe and sort of try and set up routes and see if you could crack a league over there and where there was sort of those full-time opportunities. So seeing more and more full-time opportunities closer to home and and at one point in Toronto was huge, you know. Like I think professionalizing the game and getting to pursue it full-time, there is a a mindset shift and a performance like physical shift as well from just getting to to pursue something as your number one priority rather than in the early hours or whatever. So, anyways, it's been fascinating to see. And the US hosts the Rugby World Cup in 2031. So I think the hope is there's a continued sort of ascent um and trajectory towards that where more money and eyeballs and interest will come into the sport and and hopefully that World Cup can be an inflection point to it being coming a bigger, more mainstream sport across the continent. And uh I haven't figured out what I want to do post-rugby, but uh I love sport and I love business. So if there's a way to to combine the two and stay close to rugby, I'd definitely give it uh some thought.

Dustin Heise 12:11

I have a sense that you you'll have a few doors open for you in that space if you want to pursue those. Um I have no doubt whatsoever. I mean, obviously with that on the horizon, and you know how impactful the World Cup is and and bringing people together. I think in Canada, I mean, the the game is gonna continue to explode. And I think you know, the women's game is gonna continue to explode. It's gonna be a lot of fun to continue to watch rugby grow and progress here in Canada. But yeah, I want to kind of double just double click like on the fact that world rugby and the ability to bring people together and and of different backgrounds. Do you mind just sharing from your experience like how sport is capable of unifying people across this globe? And and rugby is just second to none in its ability to do so. Do you want to just share a little bit about your experience that way?

Ben LeSage 13:00

Yeah. Yeah. No, like you said, I think rugby in particular, I feel like sports in general is is uh that's the case, but rugby in particular feels like it's a maybe a smaller community than other sports. But if you've played rugby, if you're a rugby fan, if you have any sort of association about rugby, it's it's like passionate. That's a part of your DNA and it you make it well known and you put a lot of time and uh energy towards towards following the sport. So it is this passionate community worldwide. I mean, in terms of connecting things. A a recent example, we we just got back from uh a tournament in Japan and during that 2019 World Cup, we had a game against Namibia scheduled that end ultimately got canceled because of uh of the typhoon, unfortunately. And the Canadian team sort of made headlines at at that time where sort of woke up on game day, canceled. There'd been this typhoon that wiped out a good c chunk of Kemaichi, which was the city that uh was supposed to host it. And the Canadian boys like went into the city, picked up shovels, were trying to get lead off of the roadways and help people sort of um empty their houses or move things around that they needed to. And so so that made headlines across Japan, and I would say converted a number of people in Japan to rugby fans who, again, may not have been rugby fans beforehand, but seen the story of a team who's sort of giving back and contributing, and then specifically even Canadian fans. And so, I mean, seven, eight years later, every time we go over to Japan, like a representative from Kameishi the City will come and gift our team a present. We'll have fans travel down and wear Canadian jerseys and flags and support us even against Japan as this thank you for for this one deed that was done so many years ago. And I think it's this enduring story that's uh pretty cool.

Dustin Heise 14:55

Thank you so much for that. They're not even cheering against Japan, they're cheering for Japan. And that's the beauty of these sports. And and you know, just explain to me how how you knew like the culture that you guys were able to build within that team. Like it probably wasn't even a second thought about just rolling up your sleeves and getting after it to help the community. You know, how did that culture come to fruition within the crew?

Ben LeSage 15:19

I mean, I'd like to think I don't think it was team specific. I think we're Canadian, you know what I mean? And you can probably relate. And I think it was if it was Canadian lacrosse or Canadian soccer or Canadian whatever else, like I think that just like who we are as DNA in this country and as people. And so, like you said, I don't think it was anything special to that team that that was unique to to them, to us being willing to put our hand up. I think it's just like, hey, we're Canadians and there's people in need and and we're in a position to help. So let's let's get out there.

Dustin Heise 15:50

Isn't that the truth? And I know that the Canadian snowboard crew would be right out there with you guys. There you go. Absolutely. No doubt about that. You know, Ben, as we think about the continued growth and you know, you you as a businessman, you as a as a professional athlete, I'm gonna ask you a question around, you know, kind of the next the next chapters. And, you know, in one year's time, when you look back, what's a defining moment that you hope to have been able to see having accomplished over this next year? I'm gonna ask you on a similar you know tone, but on a five-year time horizon, you know, what do you hope to have defined and left as a as a legacy on the over the next five years as you continue to to grow and lead as a as a businessman and a and and a sportsman?

Ben LeSage 16:32

Well, I think the the one year is is pretty clear for me. Like the we're actually sitting one year up from the World Cup in in 2027 in Australia right now. So that's sort of priority number one. That's at the at the top of uh my mind and every day when I wake up and training, uh like that's sort of top of mind, everything that I do and my plans and my ambition is to play in that World Cup and sort of have that be the final chapter of my rugby story and retire after that. So I think just putting in effort and time and attention over the next year to every little detail that's gonna make me the best rugby player that I can be and contribute most successfully to to that Canadian team at the World Cup uh is uh top of mind. And I hope again, like in the future I look back on this year and feel good about the the time and dedication that I had um and don't have any regrets about sort of I guess leaving any stones unturned for that final uh send-off, hopefully, of uh of my rugby career.

Dustin Heise 17:33

I love the attention to detail and the work ethic you're willing to put into it. You'll be successful and your team will be successful. And of course, you know, we're gonna be cheering for you guys like crazy as you go into those. Appreciate it. Five years, man. What's on the possibility horizon that way?

Ben LeSage 17:48

Yeah, you know, I think that's the the exciting one because I mean I have a very clear um sort of path over the next year, the next five years, there's a a lot going on. So, you know, so I think like I'm engaged, hopefully a wedding, hopefully start a family over that period of time. So I think a big transition in in sort of that family life and an added responsibility there. And then I think uh the other side of things is managing that that transition away from sport, you know, and whether that means staying really close to the sport but in another capacity or sort of venturing away entirely and doing something super new, I think that's a difficult thing to manage. There's that transition away from sport, and I think I'm mindful that the longer you're in the sport, the harder it is to transition away. It's one thing if you you play it in university or for a year or two after, but it hasn't become who you are. But I've spent some pretty defining years of my life pursuing rugby full-time, and I'm mindful that it's gonna be uh a big wake-up call and and quite a shock, just sort of that adjustment. So so leaning on people who have done it and just planning for that and and sort of coming out the other side, really proud of how I manage that transition, I think is uh is important to me.

Dustin Heise 18:59

I have no doubt, Ben, for you and you know, folks that you'll have an impact on or will come, you know, after you and whatnot, if they take it with such intention like you do, to you know have a holistic approach on all the different aspects of life, I have no doubt they you're gonna be super successful. But you know, doors are gonna continue to open for you, both from within the sport and how you can contribute as a business person, but also in sport in general. And you've got an advocate here, and I know that we'll be chairing for you, and I know Rugby Canada is gonna be super blessed to have you in their community for many years to come and in like you said, in in various capacities. But uh, you know, Canada's lucky to have someone like Ben Lasage, you know, leading the the crew and and alongside the crew and uh extremely stoked to to continue to see you you progress and love to redo a chat like this again and and have some reflection uh after the World Cup and and see where next steps lie for you, Ben. This was great, man. Thank you so much, Ben Lasage.

Ben LeSage 19:57

Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate you having me on and uh look forward to continuing to connect and uh and again I'm excited about that next chapter. I don't look at it with a fear, so uh who knows what what life has in store for me, but uh I'm excited to uh to see what it looks like. So appreciate you having me on. Yeah, you're gonna crush it, man. Stoked. Thank you. Cheers.