Dustin Heise 0:00

Oh my gosh, such good time today. Skip Gilbert, thanks so much for taking some time. Today's guest, Skip Gilbert, former CEO of U.S. Youth Soccer and USA Triathlon, whose career has been shaped by building high-performance cultures across some of the most influential organizations in sport. From Olympic movement to youth development, Skip's spent decades helping teams, leaders, and athletes grow on and off the field. Thanks so much, Skip, for taking some time with me today.

Skip Gilbert 0:27

Oh, my pleasure, Dustin. Really appreciate the uh the invitation.

Dustin Heise 0:31

Well, it's awesome to just get quality time with such incredible sport leaders that you know we can all learn from. And I know that I'm going to be a sponge today. You know, we've got some great questions lined up, and you guess getting some time with you isn't incredible. But you know, we'll just jump right into it. And you've led at both the Olympic and youth sports levels for so long. And when did you first realize that sport could shape people far beyond competition?

Skip Gilbert 0:54

Sure. You know, it's one of those things that I don't think there's a defining moment. I think it's one of those kind of learnings over time. You know, as an athlete, as you come up through high school, you start to see that people kind of look at you differently or they treat you differently. If you really perform well or if you're part of a state championship team, you start to kind of get this horror about, well, this is really interesting. And then as you kind of continue, you get into the business world. And I worked in New York City for many years after I stopped playing, and you'd see like Wall Street. They were absolutely all we want to do is hire athletes. And, you know, so they all of a sudden started to create that narrative that there's something about the competitive focus of athletes that translates really well in the business world. You know, you're able to kind of schedule your time, you're able to prioritize things, you're able to absorb anything new, and you're competitive enough that if someone kind of pushes you out of the way, you're probably not going to let it sit very long.

Dustin Heise 1:59

That's awesome, man. Isn't that the truth? I mean, for leaders like ourselves, and and you know, and we have to just stay so determined and so resilient, and you're darn right around, you know, it's that athleticism and it's that career over decades of just participating and driving in high performance sport. You've spoken a lot about development over pressure over time. And what made you so passionate about getting youth sport culture right?

Skip Gilbert 2:24

You know, I think part of it, I got years ago when I was in Colorado with USA Triathlon and I was coaching soccer at the same time. There's usually two tracks for kids to take. You know, the recreational side where you're just playing for fun for the love of the game, and then the more elite side. And for many sports, and soccer was one, they kind of came together. And so as kids get younger and younger, more expectations kind of came out of them. And I had a U13 team out in Colorado Springs one year, and the kids were some were really talented, but they were a rec team. It was a purely, we just wanted to play recreationally. The parents didn't want to travel. They didn't want to have to drive, you know, eight hours up to Wyoming to play in a game, but the kids wanted to have fun and they wanted to learn. And unfortunately, the club that we belonged to didn't have a rec league for anything above 13. And so we ended up having to play more of the open age group where our first game of the season as a U-13 team, one of our players came up and said, Coach, he drove to the game, you know, and he's got a beard, you know, and and it just it wasn't really that fair. And so that's really when it hit me that there really needs to be those two pathways. You know, the pathway for the kids that truly have that mentality to be an elite athlete and the skills and all the things that go with it. But there needs to be a pathway for kids that by the time they're 40 years old, they just want to be playing in a bar league. You know, they don't have that same enthusiasm. They're not going to be good enough to play high school, college, professional for your country. They just want to play. And we need to be able to support both of those avenues.

Dustin Heise 4:13

Couldn't agree more. How have you experienced being able to create that on the sports that you've been able to contribute to the most? Because I couldn't agree more about the multiple pathways, which always then allows for underrepresented groups to stay engaged and involved that much longer, that much earlier, and be able to be retained within sport and stay healthy. And of course, performance pathway is going to always have its ability and access. You know, what are some of the ways that you've been able to see or those that you've seen doing it right?

Skip Gilbert 4:40

There's plenty of organizations. And a lot of my focus right now has been in soccer since I was with USYS for the last five years, but and just the sheer number of players that come through the soccer ecosystem in the United States. And there are plenty of organizations out there that are at the true grassroots level trying to get kids to come in and play. And one of the things, even before I was with soccer, one of the things that I started to do within the Olympic movement in the United States was to try to get the NGBs, the national governing bodies, to sign an edict that they would promote multi-sport play. Because at some point, you know, a kid's going to come to the realization that, you know, maybe I don't love this sport as much as I should. And as administrators, we should take that and say, all right, you can close the door on this sport, but another sport should open. Because for all of us, it's not so much about the proficiency in one sport, it's about creating that health and wellness ethic for a lifetime. You know, I used to always say, and I still do, you know, that we're in the business of making dreams come true through sport. And part of that is as we get older, if we don't have that sport background, you're probably not going to be as healthy. You might make you know bad choices and it's going to cost. Where if you're active and you stay active, you know, hopefully, you know, you're not going to have some of those at least health issues. And you can make more of your dreams come true. So the reality is, again, for me at least, it's not so much the infrastructure of who's involved in the sport, it's the actual base. How is the sport structured? And I'll use a phrase from I worked for a number of years at USA swimming. And our whole mantra was build the base, promote the sport, achieve sustained competitive success. And if you build the base correctly, which allows any kid any opportunity to participate in that sport however they see fit, if that structure is there, you'll likely have them for life.

Dustin Heise 6:52

I love it, man. That hits home. And I I know that for listeners, that's exactly what we all need is that foundation so that sport, no matter the stage or no matter the pathway, we can keep people involved. I just also love the ability to keep kids and people connected. Doesn't matter the sport. I couldn't agree more because we just want to see people playing and getting out there and staying active no matter the sport. Now, you've also alluded already to the to the beauty of what sport offers to a person that's been growing in business or learning, you know, and building the business acumen needed to sustain organizations, but you've also seen organizations through change and uncertainty. What are some of those pieces that sport, you know, ensured that you were able to see that across the line or see it continue to build towards success or, you know, just any anecdotes that helped you succeed in in those challenging times? And, you know, we as business leaders, we always encounter them. What are some of those pieces that you've seen?

Skip Gilbert 7:44

You know, one of the great adages that come out of sport is practice makes perfect. We've all heard that you got to spend whatever, 10,000 hours to be able to be really be proficient at something. But in sport, it's practice, practice makes perfect. And also you want to practice like you play, not play like you practice. And when you think about that and the amount of time that it takes to be proficient in sport, it's the same in business. You know, I mean, how many people would walk into an interview and say, Oh, I'm sorry, Dustin, what company are you with? Why am I here? No one would ever do that. They would because you have to prepare for it. You know, you wouldn't walk into your boss's office and say, Hey, I was just walking by and I thought, give me a raise. You know, the your boss is gonna throw you out of the office. You have to walk in with a strategic analysis of why you're worth that much more to your organization. And it's the same, you know, in all of the different disciplines within business, it's practice, practice, practice. And you develop those skills, you polish those skills, and then you're able to express them. And it's the same for any athlete, whether you're on the hill snowboarding or you're on the soccer field, if you don't put the time and commitment and the passion into what you're doing, someone else is going to do that, and they're gonna be out there in front of you.

Dustin Heise 9:09

Couldn't agree more on just what it takes to, no matter your craft, athletically or in business, that intentionality and the time and the relentlessness and also just that drive to get to the next version of yourself, you know, that's couldn't agree more on that. And I think that just kind of leads perfectly into, well, you know, what values-driven culture ensures that we have that kind of mindset, you know, no matter where we're training.

Skip Gilbert 9:38

I go back and I look back on my career and and some of the stops I've had, you know, and we all and how even media has transformed where we think about professional athletes sometimes doing things on the field for that ESPN, I want to be on, you know, SportsCenter, I want that career highlight. But the reality is, as coaches or administrators, if we're trying to underscore a values-driven sport, you know, it's really what do those players do that make the difference? Do they win with dignity? You know, do you lose with grace? If I if I'm challenging someone on the soccer field and I hit and it's a fair challenge, and the person, I was sort of overly aggressive and they're flat on their back, to be able to reach down and say, look, come on, let's go and play, you know, that says a lot about the integrity of sport. You're there to win, you're there to compete, but you're also there to share a common love for a game. You know, and so from that standpoint, how do we ensure and how do we drive that into the kids? And and at the development level, and again, I'll use soccer as the example. Over the years, a lot of parents would say, Can you just assess my kid and tell me, are they going to be able to be a professional? Can they play for their country? You know, and I usually look at them and I say, Well, there's a couple of questions you should ask your and just watch. Has your kid ever forgotten their soccer ball before they get to practice? Does your kid ever play with the ball at their feet when they're not at practice? You know, and you you can tell a lot that there are some kids that are just there because it's a scheduled event. And that's the difference between the good and the great players. The great players have it in their heart. You know, I used to tell parents all the time, you can give me 11, you know, 11 really talented kids. I'd rather have 11 kids with heart because they're gonna learn quicker, they're gonna adapt, they're gonna find ways to win because they just love the game.

Dustin Heise 11:44

I'm with you. I mean, I just think that just speaks to that athlete journey. And, you know, do you think that that has to be a gift that you know a young person has, or do you think that can be taught and they uh ultimately get that kind of drive, you know, as time comes and as they keep getting taught? Or, you know, where do you think that that comes from? Or how do you think that we as either parents, leaders, coaches, where do we get that right? You know, how do you how do you hit the mark? And uh and I mean I'm asking that question, good guidance. You know, it's uh you know, it's one of those things in all facets that I just mentioned. Yeah.

Skip Gilbert 12:20

It's really different with every athlete. You know, I mean, uh again, you see some parents today that are just leaning over their kids at every step. You know, and I look at it in today's world as parents have turned into general managers. They're putting so much money into their kids' athletic endeavors that they think that they can dictate, you know, they can talk to the coaches, they can talk to the referees. Heck, they're gonna scream at their kids in the backseat on the way home because they want a revert return on investment. But the reality is whether you see some kids that do really well. I mean, again, I worked at U.S. tennis, Andre Agassiz, you know, he had a tennis ball hung in his crib at the age of two weeks. And phenomenal athlete. But then there are kids that never had parental involvement that did really well. I mean, again, I I look at my career, I did pretty well as a soccer player, and my parents never pushed the sport. I don't even think they knew what the sport when I came home and said, I'm playing soccer. They're like, well, what the heck is that? Um and each individual picks up different nuances. I ended on ended up loving the game where you couldn't drag me off the practice field. You know, I would stay as long as I possibly could, even through college and at the at the professional level, I just wanted to be on the field. And that again helps to define an individual's ability to get the most out of what they have. You know, granted, some some individuals have a different body type.

Dustin Heise 13:47

I want to build on this because I couldn't agree more. And then I can align with that so much. And I see, you know, the best certainly that is their mentality. Have you seen or have you had an impact on anybody where they didn't quite have that makeup, but they had that coached into them and they actually, you know, you were able to resonate or you saw a coach that was able to resonate with an athlete to help that that fire, because they had that talent, but they maybe didn't have the fire that they were easily dragged off the pitch or they were easily taken off the snow or whatever. You know, have you seen that come from an external source successfully? I'm just curious, Skip, because I aligned with what you're sharing, because you know, it's what I've seen time and time again. I don't know if it if it even works otherwise.

Skip Gilbert 14:30

So when you look at a team sport, and I'm over the over-indexing on soccer, but soccer, baseball, football, you know, as every individual is different, every coach has inherently a different way of motivating their players. There are some coaches that are the you know the very tactical, we're gonna do this in a very robotic manner, and their team kind of plays like that. There are some coaches that are of the roll up the sleeves mentality that's just like, just get it done, and allows the team to have the creativity to figure it out on the field. You know, and when they're at practice, they incorporate not just the regiment of we need to do these drills, but do it in a fun environment so that the kids are actually smiling, you know, when they're getting nutmicked, um, you know, and and they're having fun with it. Because at the end of the day, as much as you know, people are saying, well, it's a you know, you we want our kid to be a professional, it's a game. And the the the percentage of kids that will actually be a professional is so minuscule. I mean, there are if you look at the 49 top countries playing soccer in the world today, and you looked at their top professional team, that accounts for about 27,000 people. We registered at U.S. Youth 2.6 million kids to play. You know, and that's just in the United States. Forget the other 48 countries. You've got so many kids that are trying to become one of those 27,000 that at the end of the day, if they don't get to that level, some kids will walk away and never play the sport again because they're so disillusioned, disenfranchised. But the kids that are incorporated into the, you know, this is fun. You may not get there, but you can get over here. And if you make it fun, again, you're gonna capture fans for life.

Dustin Heise 16:24

Has that stayed with you, that notion of fun since your days of playing professionally and and as you've continued to be a professional, have you been able to keep that mantra or what parting thought would you give to the listeners and and the viewers today on how do you maintain that that fun?

Skip Gilbert 16:42

That's a tough one. And and again, I think some people you look at the cranial aspect of it, you know, some people are just pessimistic, some are optimistic. You know, I mean, you see that again in the business business world, but on the field of play, uh again, it's part of it is up to the coach to be able to rally the team together in in unison to be able to ensure work hard, play hard, have fun. You know, and I've heard a lot of coaches over the years in their kind of huddle before they go back onto the field or go onto the field at the beginning of the match, have fun, enjoy it, smile. And again, a lot of times you'll see athletes that are so tense when they get on the field that the outcome may not be as strong as someone who's just relaxed and smiling, and they might be able to adapt in a better way. And again, whether it's an individual sport like yours, where an athlete hits a bump and if they're all rigid, it might throw them. But if they're just having a grand all-time thinking, this is the greatest thing I've ever done in my life, they'll be able to adapt to whatever the hill throws them and be able to succeed.

Dustin Heise 17:52

I love it, man. And as you're sharing this, you know, my vision is also in the boardroom and be able to operate off that same kind of mentality. And I have a sense that you were able to lead like that. And, you know, for our listeners, again, just any final thoughts as you know, we we just look at how we can continue to lead the way we are. What what is a a way that you continue to lead within the boardroom day in, day out, leading your teams?

Skip Gilbert 18:22

When I try to define sort of my leadership, you know, it's a really a strategic architect. You know, I love to kind of build things and I love to be able to see it in front of me and to be able to know that at the end of the day, we want to get over there. And that came ex-I mean, I was a goalkeeper, you know, and I had the entire field in front of me, first line of offense, last line of defense. And you could be able to orchestrate how things maneuver just by your ability to communicate well with your teammates. And so from that standpoint, sort of my whole focus is how do we get this organization from point A to point B and make sure everyone works hard to get there, but enjoy it. Yeah. You know, I'm a big believer of was Jim Collins' good to great, you know, that you want everybody in the right seats on the bus. And there's no shame in stopping the bus to say you need to go, you know, find a different direction. Because if the if the organization and if the job is not right for someone and they're not enjoying what they do, they're probably not giving you the output that the organization truly deserves, and they'd be better off finding a place somewhere else. It may hurt to get there. You know, nobody wants to be told it's time for you to leave the organization, but ultimately, most times that person's leaving the organization because the organization isn't really right for them. They're not seeing what they can be, and they need to be put somewhere else. And it I again, with over the years where you've had these separation discussions, I've had so many people come back over the years and say, you know what, I'm so thankful you actually pushed me out the door because then I found what I wanted to do.

Dustin Heise 20:11

So thankful for your wisdom and just the the ability to help us shape that vision and others to see that there's additional ways to do it and different ways that you can take the bus and make sure that the seats are right set. Skip, I got one last question for you. You know, in in one year's time, you know, where do you see Skip Gilbert and you know your ability to continue to lead and continue to contribute in the sport?

Skip Gilbert 20:35

I just joined USA Fencing on their board of directors. And again, so I'm keeping my my toe in the Olympic movement. And even with my role here at Capelli, to be able to talk to so many different sports and you know, and different leaders within sport, you know, again, part of it is the structure. It doesn't matter what sport you're in, if your structure is strong, you're gonna have sustained success. And part of my messaging is not just make your sports successful, but embrace multi-sport play. Take a page from Norway. You know, every kid should play in as many sports as they want, and nobody should be given the label of anything but player until they're 13. Let them decide by their actions and their heart and their passion whether they're fit for the elite path, or I just want to play to have fun path. And if all of that is there, then I think we're gonna make a huge impact, you know, in years to come within the sport ecosystem and just within culture of society.

Dustin Heise 21:40

Couldn't agree more. Well, on that note, thank you for the impact you make on society and you know, for all of us as uh as growing and aspiring leaders. And, you know, Skip, thanks so much for everything that you've done that you do, and look forward to following up in a future conversation and keep this going and build the momentum together. All the best and thanks so much, Skip.

Skip Gilbert 22:00

Absolutely. Thanks, Dustin, and appreciate everything you're doing.