Dustin Heise 0:00

Well, Marnie McBean, thank you so much for taking some time today. And what an honor to get to spend time with you, Senator Marnie McBean, Olympic gold medalist. You name it. Marnie, as as a young man, I I was seeing you on television, the Olympics, and you know, on advertisements and you know, and the inspiration that that you were as I was growing in sport and wanting to see what I could pursue. And now seeing as a as a leader within the government of Canada. What an honor to have you here today. And thanks so much for spending some time with a snowboarder and up and coming. Okay, thanks so much.

Senator Marnie McBean 0:37

Oh, my pleasure. And did your research tell you that I was actually a snowboard instructor at one point in time? Like I worked.

Dustin Heise 0:44

Oh my gosh, where where did you?

Senator Marnie McBean 0:47

Well, Whistler, actually, when it was still Whistler one side and Black Home the other. Actually, no, it was the first year that they merged. I tried to retire after the 96 Olympics. And I just honestly, all I wanted was a free pass. And I I called up and uh I said, Hey, can I get a free pass? And they said, sure, we'll make you snowboard instructor. And I thought it was going to be a name alone. And no, they put me in a uniform, they put me through the training. I got certified level one, and I was an adult beginner snowboard instructor. Yeah.

Dustin Heise 1:15

Well, no wonder you are even more of a legend than I'd actually also not surprising. We've got an incredible presence and an obviously really cool demeanor. And you know, by no means is that a shocker. We're gonna have to go riding here one of these days. I don't hold it against me, but I ski more now.

Senator Marnie McBean 1:32

But yeah, you know, as I get older, and I'm sure you'll hear this from other people as you get older, it's it's nice not to have to like click in and click out. And I know the technology on the bindings getting way easier. But uh, you know, the getting down to my like Burton like crankers was like so good, so good.

Dustin Heise 1:48

Well, it's been really neat to to plan for just having the chat and then think about the leader that you are and and how you continue to engage with with people and you know leading in sport and then now leading within the the government of Canada. I mean, what a trip. You know, kind of one of the first questions around you know leading a team and and being part of a team, and you know, sport of course is a is an ultimate way to to be part of that. But you know, now you're you're operating within the government of Canada. Are you able to create that sense of team within the site as well as a leader and and galvanize people together in in that same sense that you did in you know sport and and certainly to be at the world meeting level as a rower?

Senator Marnie McBean 2:29

It's certainly yes and no. Yes, yeah, like I'm gonna say yes because we're good people and the sense of team is we're trying to get good work done. But you know, one of the things I learned, so when I finished as a rower after the Sydney Olympics, I I ended up becoming a specialist, specialist in Olympic athlete preparation and mentoring. And I started working with all the different sports. Like I started working with the winter sports and with the summer sports, and I really got a sense through that that there's like lots of different kinds of teams. And the sport environment that I knew as what was like, you know, the gospel of my rowing environment was completely different for for other sports. Like even if you take your own sport, like snowboarding, you have a team, but you're not coming down the hill as a team, right? Everyone's their own individual, everyone's got their own lane and their own line. That's you know, where I am now in in the Senate, the way we go through the parliamentary process in the modern Senate right now is um my colleagues and I were not whipped. So that means we're not all voting the same way. So, you know, as much as we're a team, we have like free direction to vote which whichever we way we want on things, which, you know, at first I came in, I'm like, oh, we're gonna be such a good strong team. And and now I'm realizing that the way that affects our team is how we listen to each other, right? And how we listen to each other and consider each other's perspectives, how we actually implement our work, which ultimately is through our vote. That's that's always gonna be very personal. And and the idea of team is to be more open to listening to new ideas and maybe some redirection, but certainly there's no that like this is how we're gonna do it, and you know, it's gonna get done this way. You know, so it's the real world doesn't work as cleanly as eight bums going backwards, right? Like it's rowing, by the way.

Dustin Heise 4:21

Well, I know it's uh are you having fun within that space? And you know, I know that again, you're you're nimble, you're naturally adapt to you know any of these environments. Yeah, it seems like one of those places that it could be a lot of fun if you if you allow for it to be.

Senator Marnie McBean 4:35

Oh, that's a good way to put it. Yeah, I'm it's a great place for a curious person. And so I'm I'm learning a ton, right? And I find myself actually what the one of the committees I'm actually loving. Uh like I grew up in downtown Toronto, um, like right midtown, depending on how Trontonian you are. I'm right in the city, but I am loving being on the agriculture and forestry, the standing committee of agriculture and forestry. It's fascinating. Like one in nine jobs in agri is in agriculture and agri-food. There's a bigger GDP input, way bigger GDP input than like automotive. Like all these things I'm learning. And so the committee work we do, I find it really important and like just fascinating. Certainly the legislative work we do, which is our raise on debt, that can be kind of slow. That's a lot of speeches on a lot of topics, and it's a lot of listening on a lot of long speeches. Um, I but it's it's also really important. That's the part you need to have patience for that part. I really enjoy uh the quality of the people around me. So it's it's a fun team to be around, and and I enjoy just being curious and asking lots of questions.

Dustin Heise 5:44

I'll dig in another time on just like as you've continued to mature in the role and and how patience becomes a skill. And uh lead athlete, that's not the easiest skill to learn. So we'll save that one for another time. But just thinking about again, just the ambition and you know, as uh as both a leader as an athlete, you know, just ambition is one of those pieces because you have a vision for yourself of what you're capable of and and achieving you know great things. Of course, Olympic gold medals are you know the pinnacle of of that space and and being a leader within the government of Canada. I watched a clip earlier today on you know something that that you share within some of your speaking engagements around the concept of a done list, because so many of us who are ambitious and are are driven and you know want to make an impact on this world with our time on the planet, we don't often look back at you know what we've always been able to leave as an legacy. And so we keep we keep staying, you know, maybe a little bit negative or or whatnot on ourselves. And and I just loved how you put that in, you know, I got really stoked this morning, you know, having got to see that and then getting a chance to connect today around that. So I was just hoping maybe you could share a little bit about how you came up with that concept, how you framed it, and you know, just listeners who are are trying to grow in business and sport. Um thanks, Bernie.

Senator Marnie McBean 7:12

Yeah, well, it was it was um a bit of an evolution. Like I was I think, you know, for decades I've been talking about um preparation is like having a cup. And every, you know, the cup is kind of the goal or what you think is going to be the completion of the goal. And every day that you train and you listen and you're open to new ideas, you're putting little grains of rice in a cup, right? And and you know, when you're being stubborn and and you're not listening and you're giving like 60%, you know, attendance for attendance only kind of thing. That's grains of rice out of cup. And, you know, if you if you're like, well, I've been doing it this way for the last five years, why would I ever change, you know, dump the cup, you're a dinosaur, you're done. When we got to the pandemic, I was the chef de mission for Team Canada that was preparing for the Tokyo Olympics. And I was trying to figure out how to connect with like a team of extraordinarily ambitious and focused people who are being asked to like train at home and not compete and don't test yourself against somebody else. And um, you know, the thing about all of those people, and you know, let's even go with everyone who are who's watching, listening to this podcast, they're ambitious people, and and we all have a to-do list, right? So we're always clicking things off of our to-do list. And so I just started thinking about that, and I'm like, well, what do we do with that? Like, so you know, in the pandemic, we're like training in our basement or in the middle of a field, and we we do the thing, we accomplish something. So you you click something off your to-do list, but what happens to it then? I had always sort of envisioned it as being a grain of rice. I really needed Team Canada to find momentum, right, in a time where it seemed like there was no momentum and no forward action because we weren't able to test or or challenge our preparedness on anything. And so I moved it from being grains of rice, filling in a cup, which I still very much believe in. I moved it to a sense of like as clear as we have our to-do list. And we will always have our to-do list, but they're endless. So when you've checked those things off, what do you do with them? And I'm like, well, let's just migrate it over to a done list, right? And let's have a sense of remembering and having an awareness of all the things we've done. And the thing I've always talked about with respect to pressure and big moments is you should always be feeling like you're standing, standing on your preparation. So let's say standing on your done list and that it elevates you. And sometimes what people make the mistake of is they flip it. So if it's this big pyramid of work that you've done, they flip it. And so it's like weighing down on you. And it's like this burden going into competition. It's this burden going into the test and the challenge that you're setting before yourself. And that's like so, so wrong. Like flip it down and make it your done list so that it holds you up. It's like you're there's so many different things to call it. It's your tool belt, whatever you want. But put it, put it down where it holds you up and it supports you and it helps you reach higher. And so I I think everyone's gonna have a done list, like a to-do list. And I don't want every people to stop, but the more we're aware of what we have done, that actually is what propels us forward. And you're like, well, oh, I've done this or I've done that or I tried this. And it doesn't have to be an exact like one for one of what you're trying to do. But if you're like, well, I've done stuff like that, so why not? Like just because all you need is that momentum or that inertia to step forward and to try. And I think that's the the value of the done list is it gives us the confidence to believe that we, you know, as at a at a bare minimum is is contry and to go forward, you know. And now I'm I have all these like like I I can like I just want to keep rolling. I'm like, because and I'll just finish with like I think the hardest part of any task and challenge is starting it, right? So if you can look at your done list and it helps you initiate a first step, once you get going, fear and doubt often go away because you're so busy thinking about what you're doing. But when you're waiting to start, oh my God, that's that's like just so intimidating. But just start and uh you're good to go.

Dustin Heise 11:44

I think that that's spot on for where we're at right now within the the state of sport within Canada right now. And it's that whole starting line that we have in front of us where you know seeing you know you're sharing even you know quite recently around you know when the report for the future state of sport came out, and of course there's you know several recommendations that are that are you know bang on and you know how do we continue to build that? But from your perspective, how can we uh help Prime Minister Mark Carney, Adam Vancouverden, and all of those teammates around them to utilize sport now more than ever in this country? And I know you know as good as anyone in those rooms how valuable sport is to bond Canadians together and our ability to take this incredible nation forward.

Senator Marnie McBean 12:43

Dustin, that's such a huge, there's such a huge, unpackable, almost unpackable answer in there. Um well, there's like a couple of things. First of all, sport right now is completely underfunded. So how do we st uh help athletes? Like, I think we're a little bit back to pre-own the podium era, where when Canadian athletes are on the podium and they're looking, you know, at athletes from other countries on the start line uh beside them, whether they're German or Australian or British, Chinese, wherever they're coming from, I think Canadian athletes aren't wrong when they think the other athletes have a better funding system behind them. I know that was the goal. And I felt really good about the work that we did through 2006, you know, on the podium was, you know, really it was born for 2010. And and Canadian athletes really had a sense that they could stand on the on the start line and know, like, I don't know how the competition's gonna go, but my training has been as good as anybody else's training. That's not the case. Like often now we're a dollar for every 10 that's going into some other countries uh who were historically more comparable. Uh so first of all, we need we we need Prime Minister Kearney to put it put his money where his beliefs are, right? He's it's quite common for him to talk about the value of Team Canada. And and I even, you know, recently in the Senate, right, put it to the the government, uh, you know, Kearney and many, they're they're quite they're quite keen to put on a Team Canada jersey and and talk about Team Canada. We have to know that that needs to be like funded. If we want to continue being proud of what the Maple Leaf can do.

Dustin Heise 14:25

Do you think we've educated Canadians enough as an ecosystem to understand the value of sport so that a constituent that's voting understands the economic impact in their region, how many people are participating in sport, and how that means to the businesses that are in every community across Canada. And that in fact is arguably the most impactful piece within any and every community. I think we've only got like, you know, we we some of of of amazing things that bring people together, don't get me wrong, but sport's there every single day, day in and day out, each and every night, every morning for early morning. I mean you you name it, so you're grabbing your coffee on your way there from the Tim Hortons to the lunch that you go out for after, or you know, all these pieces that again have that impact because of sport, but we haven't helped Canadians understand this, Marnie. And so they know that when sport is underfunded, that you know, that needs to be enabled and and help their representative in the region to hold that accountable. Yeah.

Senator Marnie McBean 15:34

No, no, yeah. No, it's this is all good. Like you're you're speaking to the choir here, right? So so depending on who you talk to, an investment in not just sport, but sport and activity has for every dollar you put in. There is the other day I heard someone say three or four dollars return on that investment, but I've actually I've also heard up to nine dollars uh return onto that investment, right? The thing is, sport has for a long time existed in the heritage department, which means sport is branding. Sport is making the flag and team Canada look great, it's making us proud to be Canadians, it's it's making Canada look successful. Sport does not exist, and maybe it should, in the health ministry. Like sport does not exist in the education ministry. You know, sport does not exist in the defense ministry. And sport, I remember when like in the 90s there was a report done that showed that there was a positive impact on like 14 different ministries. So if you have a healthier and active population, let's let's not even look at our results and how it makes us feel proud to be Canadian because we're kicking ass around the world. If you have a healthier and active population, then healthcare costs go down. We are physically and mentally healthier. So that's got a great choice. If there's more school, um physical education generally keeps kids uh more focused in school. So, you know, they've done studies in Sweden and Norway, and they value daily physical education because they see daily physical education keeps math and science marks higher because kids can focus. And we look at declining math and science marks, and what do we do? We take out daily physical education because we think kids need to sit still and stare at like a page and a pencil and a screen more, which they can't focus and they can't learn. So it's going the wrong way. If you have a healthy and active community, then you also have people who feel that being healthy and active is a lifestyle that they want so that they get into more physical type work, which includes our defense. And right now, if you look at, you know, whether it's your lane or not, but we have declining enrollment in uh Canadian forces. And if you have a healthy and active population, then your recruits for that are going to be um more like you'll have a higher number of eligible recruits for that. Like these are just like for first jump examples. So the thing is for when we're educating constituents about the value of sport, the crazy thing is the number of people who volunteer their time for sport, while it is declining, unfortunately, because people are just busy. But the number of people who volunteer their time for sport, whether it's coaches or officials or it's volunteers, is one of the highest volunteering populations in the country for what they do, right? It's like right up there with people, the number of people who are volunteering and putting their time into faith-based organizations. I actually think sport is higher. But when it comes to putting their vote where their time is, the thing is with people in sport is they're just kind of a roll up their sleeves and fix it kind of stuff. They're not uh squeaky wheel, oh, pick me, pick me kind of people. They just get the job done. And so what often happens is people even in sport, they look to other things first, right? Without valuing all the impacts that sport can do, and they see the nice to have moments of competition and play, and they we sort of forget that impact of you know social cohesion. And finally, the other thing that sport does, and I think you were saying this, and sorry, I'm I am long answer lady, but I remember going to the International Olympic Committee offices in Lausanne, and there was a global conference of um architects, and the president of the IOC at the time was addressing them, and he said something that to me that really resonated, and he was saying that, you know, we've come into a time globally where I'm not speaking against faiths, but faiths are doing more to divide us. And it used to be that cities, great cities and and and small villages around the world uh were built around a temple or a building of faith, right? Temple, mosque, church. And they were all built around these spaces. That's no longer the case. What cities are being built around, what neighborhoods are being built around, are more community centers, but major sport venues, right? So it was considering these venues as a place to bring people together. I went down to when the Toronto Raptors won the NBA Cup, that was an amazing thing. That was a million people, and that brought us all together, and it was so joyous and it was so diverse. And like is Toronto. I think they say something like we speak like a like over a hundred languages here every day. And I think that was actually happening there, and people were just so, you know, they didn't care. Everyone was so happy.

Dustin Heise 20:49

Well, I couldn't agree more. I mean, again, we are preaching the choir here, you and I, but you know, the the ability for sport to galvanize community nations, I'd say that this is the best opportunity to to bring the world together also, and and we have those opportunities, you know, every other year, either be via you know FIFA and or the Olympic Games, summer culture, et cetera. And and you know, you're dab right on you know these facilities that that bring community together. And you know, that's how we can connect A together, but B, share, you know, how we can build on our values, uh, whatever that happens to be. And I think the the sporting environment is is exactly that. As we we get close to to time here together, but you know, you've you've been on a massive Olympic journey, business journey, uh leadership journey. Was there a quiet behind the scenes moment that actually defined your success or that you were able to think back on on you know what was a moment or a key piece that enabled you to unlock the the best version of Marnie? And I'm just thinking about that from a perspective of you know, someone listening to this. You know, what's the tool or what's the piece that uh that that maybe they can lean into that that helped you?

Senator Marnie McBean 22:06

Well, I I think I gained a tremendous amount working with Kathleen Heddle. You know, she was my rowing partner for a long time, an incredible athlete and human, but she was an introvert. And so there was a lot that I learned from working with her about the value of focusing on people's strengths and listening to what isn't said as much as what is said, like how behavior and actions really are the most important thing. So I learned a lot about leading. And when I was leading uh Team Canada for the Tokyo Olympics, I was thinking about, you know, I didn't want to be the leader just to all the extrovert uh McBeans. I wanted to make sure I was being present and the type of leader that would engage the introvert heddles at that time. So I think that's always, you know, when you talk about quiet and behind the scenes, like first comes Kathleen, and then, well, I sometimes I never know. It's being asked like a favorite moment. It's different on every day. And I haven't thought about this story for a long time. But so Kathleen and I, before we won our first world championship, which led to many wins, I remember we did we were doing, we were working so hard on technique, and we did this one, we were doing this one row in the middle of a lake in Switzerland. There was nobody there. And it was the opposite of going fast. We were going as slow as we could. So if a rower is going to race, you know, 36 to 40 strokes per minute, we took it down below 10. I think we were rowing at eight strokes per minute. A rowing boat, if you can think of riding a bike, you know, as you go slower and slower and slower, it gets harder and harder to balance. And it's very much the same for a rowing boat. So when you go below 10 strokes a minute, you're you're barely moving. And what we were trying to do was keep the boat balanced. Uh, Kathleen had the port side oar and I had the starboard side oar. And we were making them like normally you would like feather your oar so it would like have lots of space over the water. We were keeping it square and we wanted to go tickless. We didn't, we wanted to keep our balance and not tick the water. And we went for uh 2,000 meters, which is a race distance. We went for 2,000 meters at eight strokes a minute, and like literally our brains were smoking by a time. It was required such concentration. Like that probably took us, it probably took us 15 minutes. Uh and a race would be seven. Um it may have taken us longer, actually. But we got to the end and we were just like, we like we did it. You know, normally it's hard to put 10 strokes together, and so we probably put about, God, it would have taken over two, 250 strokes to get there. That was the moment we knew we could win. Not when we were going super fast, but when we were going super slow. And we just had this sense that we were so in sync because that requires, you know, again, like if a uh a pair, so one or out one side, one or the other side. If you can picture someone walking down a tight, tight rope, right? A tight rope walker, and they've got that long pole and they're using that long pole to balance themselves. Well, in a pair, imagine there's two people, you're tied at the waist, and each person has half the pole. So you have to coordinate your balance. Like one's out one side, the other's like, you know, the balance is so dependent on the other person coordinating with you at every moment, taking every step together. And just the ability to go slow. I don't even know if it was a perfect attention to detail, but it was a perfect uh unison attention to detail. Like I don't know if it was perfect detail, like technique, but we did it perfectly together. And so I I always think about it's the little things and maybe right, you know, circle, it's the tiny grains of rice that fill up the cup. It's it's not there's no there's no one big single thing. It's all the little things that come together. And when you can do the little things, when you can chain it together, that's when you start getting mastery over something, and you can really make magic happen.

Dustin Heise 26:16

I absolutely love that story and and the alignment that it demonstrates and the ability to go slow in order to go fast, and uh that ability to to lock in together and and you know truly become uh a team that is ultimately in and definitely demonstrated you know, able to lead the world in and your crap. Arnie, thanks so much for your time today. And I'd love to do this again if if you would.